Lowe Brindfors Copy the Forsman & Bodenfors SEO Mistakes

Posted · 76 Comments

Last week I wrote about how Forsman & Bodenfors don’t understand how the internet works. In absolute terms, the description was fair, but in relative terms, they are not worse than most of the advertising business. Yesterday we got another painfull piece of evidence to that effect.

I’m talking about the brand new website of Lowe Brindfors. But to discuss the site we need to separate two things: Design and communications efficiency.

Design

It’s a matter of taste of course, but I think this page is very well designed from a print designers point of view. It’s excellent print design, but awful interactive design. Because it is not interactive. It’s like designing a very pretty car with only passenger seats. And just like such a beautiful but useless car, this site belongs in a museum. Which leads me into point 2:

Communications Efficiency

This thing is a very pretty printed catalogue in digital format. It’s what websites were in the late 90’s. The entire thing is a big Flash-page, with text that you cannot copy, films you cannot share, posters that you can download as PDFs (!) but not share with anyone, and invisible coworkers that you can only reach via email or telephone. No wonder they have this disclaimer on the site:

Apparently they think that the elusive internet out there is about technology and gadgets, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Because really, these new technologies are VEHICLES of ideas. Nothing else. But the ideas have to be made for a world of transparency, not to fill expensive media plans. And for you to come up with such ideas, you have to know how this transparent world functions.

Search and SEO is ONE important aspect to understand in order to get people “to spend time with the brand” (to use Lowe Brindfors’ own terminology), and this is what the brand new Lowe Brindfors site looks like to Google:

According to Google, what’s most interesting about the new Lowe Brindfors site seems to be their webmail (!), followed by pages from their old site, and a PDF press-release from August 2008.

Disclaiming your way out of obvious lack of knowledge about the psychology and behavior on the internet with something general like a “Hey, boy slow it down”-disclaimer becomes embarrassing when confronted with clients who know the internet – something that becomes more and more common every day thanks to knowledgeable rebels and speakers on the topic like Johan Ronnestam, Simon Sundén, and Björn Alberts, just to name a few. [Edit: + Jesper Åström]

Things don’t improve when I read what Peter Willebrand our Swedish ad-business press Resumé has to say about the new site:

“Resume.se thankfully notes that the trend is the same as in other digital communication: simpler, faster, and more head on”.

This statement is very general, and also wrong. The site isn’t fast. It’s a heavy Flash film with a loader from hell. The trend of the internet is not “simpler, faster, and more head on”. The trend, or rather the permanent shift, is to social participation in dynamically coordinated institution-less groups, which means that a site needs to support that behavior. You need to love people, not just say you love them. The new thing about the internet is not that people can now talk back to you, it is that everybody can talk to everybody and coordinate discussions and topics without necessarily involving you. If anything, this is more complex, not simpler. Grasping the entire strategy for this more complex system requires a more diverse skill set ranging from behavioral psychology to technology.

The bottom line is that you can have the prettiest house in the world, but to make friends, you have to meet them. Or else you’ll end up being very lonely.

76 Responses to "Lowe Brindfors Copy the Forsman & Bodenfors SEO Mistakes"
  1. Couldn’t agree more, an advertising agency that’s got it is http://www.greatworks.se/ . Compare that site with the Lowe Brindfors one and it’s like night and day.

  2. Matthieu says:

    “Hey boy, slow it down”… now that’s embarrassing.
    Obviously, LB judged SEO and sharing stuff from their site totally irrelevant for their brand.
    I don’t know, maybe they’re right. Maybe is it so that companies hire them for their ability to find “ideas”, not to communicate these ideas.
    They’re an idea agency.

  3. @Fredrik: Yes, Great Works has built their site on the WordPress platform, and have executed it quite well! I would have wanted to see more transparency and life, but compared to the Lowe Brindfors catalogue (it’s barely a site) it’s like you say – “night and day”. Try the site:greatworks.se search to see what a difference it is from Lowe Brindfors of Svenska Kyrkan.

  4. @Matthieu: Ideas without client utility is art. And art is traditionally what has been valued in “advertising”-contests. Why else can you not submit results to the Guldäggsjury for example?

    Clients shouldn’t pay for art unless they want an art collection.

  5. Thanks for mention me, I’m flattered.

    I love “new technologies are VEHICLES of ideas”. That’s a quote I will start to use.

    LB has a misunderstand that they can create the best ideas isolated from what technologies there are. This is exactly the difference between old school communications and digital marketing. To be successfull in the later you need to know “everything”. You can’t differ marketing knowledge from being at least knowledgeable in technology. And knowledge in organisation as well for that matter.

  6. @Björn Don’t thank me, you are doing some real quality work on your blog there. My readers are the ones who should thank me for pointing them to you. :-)

    Also, you’re making a good point about management. It is a key aspect of modern marketing. A proud and empowered employee is very as valueable as a marketing driver. A frustrated employee can be devestating. It all has to do with gossip psychology on steroids, or more specifically, gossip psychology on internet.

  7. Matthieu says:

    well, in this case, the client is Lowe Brindfors. If the point of having a site is to show the world what your position is, how you define yourself, what views you have about your profession, then i guess LB’s new site is a success. They make it very clear that they are a conservative “advertising agency”, doing advertising the way they learned it:
    -> the all-on-one-side pretty static site = we refuse doing things we don’t understand (like navigation, interaction etc.)
    -> no presentation of the crew = it’s not about individuals, it’s about the group
    -> the absence of any SEO
    -> links to customers’ sites = don’t waste time on our own site
    -> the 4 posters in retro print colours and timeless design, simple and with extremely simple messages = we do graphic design, that’s what we are good at, we still think it’s the best way to communicate our talent.
    -> the attack against technological innovations –since that’s how they characterize the use of social media–
    That’s their statement. We do advertising. We do it like we’ve always done.
    Now, do i think it is a position they can hold in the future? Hell no! That would not even be enough for a design agency, which they are not.

  8. Hi Walter Naeslund.

    You’re right that we haven’t put a lot of work on SEO on this site. There’s a simple reason for that: 1) We don’t have any non-flash programmers or SEO-guys inhouse, and hiring outside help for this is unthinkable given the times we are in. And just as you google-screenshot demonstrated, I’m not sure we need a seo-consultant right now.

    Regarding some of the other shots you took at us: This is a simple bureau presentation. It’s not ment to go viral, it’s not ment to be somebodys facebook favourite. It’s not meant to be shared on all of these VEHICLES you lecture us about. It’s meant to say who we are and give a few examples of what we’ve done, in a clean and simple way, and for that we only need one VEHICLE: our website.

    To try to fit your own models and predefinitions of how the internet should work, to our modest agency presentation just isn’t fair. And telling us, or F&B, that we don’t know how the internet work, is simply not true.

    And judging from the look and feel of honesty.se, you could learn a bit from us aswell.

    Thank you for your time
    Joakim Norman

  9. Magnus Jakobsson says:

    Jag gillar både Walter och Brindfors.

    Men Walter, är det verkligen rättvist att säga att man på Brindfors “begår ett misstag” genom denna byråpresentation? Man måste ju känna till bakgrunden till beslutet om sidan innan man säger så.
    Du har givetvis rent teoretiska poänger som är jätteintressanta, men det är faktiskt inte alltid så att dom måste implementeras, eller ja, det är åtminstone inte så att man “misslyckades” om man inte gjorde det. Eller? På vems premisser? Dina?

  10. För övrigt så är kommentarsfältet på Resumés artikel http://resume.se/nyheter/2009/09/14/vi-har-haft-en-ofortjant-d/ också mycket underhållande läsning. Maken till kommentarer vissa alltså. Typ den här favoriten:

    “jag jobbar på en webbyrå och även vår hemsida är flash. alla våra uppdragsgivare har flash och så även svenska folket. flash är inget konstigt utan väldigt självklart om du frågar mej”.

    Jag förstår att han ville vara anonym.

  11. Magnus Jakobsson says:

    hahaha. Starkt. MYCKET starkt.

  12. Didn’t mean to be rude, but you are sending invoices to your clients for millions of kronor for your consulting services in the field of communication, and they, like you, are living in a world where the internet is a key aspect of communication.

    Unless I’m mistaken, Lowe Brindfors has the ambition to provide full service communications consulting to its clients? But let’s assume for a minute that this is not the ambition and that Lowe Brindfors is a print design agency. Then you would STILL benefit from shareability of specific designs. How else can we discuss your work? How else would your really awesome designs and other work receive the reward of ranking high in search engines? How will you be visible?

    Also, a smart move for a print design agency would be to venture into the field of digital design. Like, for instance, Identity Works have done through some aggresive recruitments. Your clients will want digital design, and they will not want a static Flash-catalogue for much longer because it is not cost efficient (which is partly why I engage in this discussion in the first place). 20-50% of traffic can come from search engines for a well optimized site.

    (And by the way, it’s not either or. You could have done basically the same design without using Flash).

    But you are not a print design agency, are you? You sell quite expensive consulting services in the field of communication, don’t you? Drawing up strategies for you clients entire marketing efforts? How can you do that if you don’t know how the internet works, if you don’t have anything but Flash people at your agency, if you get defensive when I point out that you are practically invisible and unsharable on the internet, instead of listening and learning?

    Your clients are starting to learn. I’ve spoken to many of them. And they will be speaking to you. Your “social media disclaimer” will be tough to explain to somebody who’s being invoiced a few or several million every year by you for managing their marketing. Even though the internet may not exist for you, it most definitely exists for them!

    And yes, I won’t take credit for the design of neither Honesty.se nor Walternaeslund.com. They are both standard WordPress blogs with the Thesis theme, designed by Chris Pearson at Pearsonified.com (you should try it!). His implementation of the theme is much prettier than mine, and I do have quite a bit to learn from him, but it is very practical and easy to install.

    Honesty will launch in stage 2 on October 1, so if you have ideas for Honesty.se or any of my blogs, I will be more than happy to listen. I scratch your back by giving you critique, and you scratch mine by giving me some! If you’re a bit more specific it will be more useful.

    I have much to learn. You have much to learn. Let’s all try to learn and improve, and maybe reclaim Sweden’s lost position in the digital realm.

  13. @Magnus, jag tycker jag har en del rent praktiska poänger snarare än teoretiska.

    Sen vore det nog förmätet av mig att påstå att dessa premisser är mina. Så smart är jag inte.

  14. Christoffer says:

    @Joakim Norman: I love how you’re taking a cheap shot at Walter at the end of you post on the graphic design of his blog. Just proves you’re missing the whole point of the discussion.

  15. Magnus Jakobsson says:

    “Teoretiska” då de inte har tillämpats rent praktiskt i Brindfors enkla byråpresentation. Men visst, rent teoretiskt så är dina poänger praktiska. If you get my point. Men tack för att du försökte rätta mig. Jag har ofta fel, så du kunde ha haft rätt.

  16. Matthieu says:

    Questions to Joakim Norman:

    On the new site, you write: “Ideas that make consumers what –WHAT?– to spend time with a brand. When we have that, we woud love to use all the technology and cutting-edge gadgets we can find, as long as they are relevant.”
    Now, you say that you “don’t have any non-flash programmers or SEO-guys inhouse”.
    How are you going to hold your promise to your visitors about using relevant new technology? Are you seriously considering NOT delivering at any time in a near future campaigns or products containing social elements? How come (out of 140 people) no one has this competence in your agency?

  17. Matthieu says:

    Ok- the text on LB’s site has been changed, for the better.
    But my question is still actual.

  18. Hello. There seems to be a lot of prejudice towards ad agencies here.

    First of all, the fact that we don’t have a dedicated front-end programmer or SEO-guy at our office doesn’t mean we can’t use the competence. We, just as most of other agencies, have a network of partners, freelancers etc. I assure you, we’re not stupid. But our site is like most agency sites not as big of a priority to use as our clients needs, our website lacks.

    But to jump to the conclusions some of you, and Mr Näslund, has is uncalled for and unfounded.

    Second of all, I’m not saying the graphic design of Honesty.se is bad. It’s a wordpress-format, which has both advantages and disadvantages. And I’m not here to critisize anyone. I’d rather create than destroy.

    I am 26 years old. I’m a Hyper Island graduate. I created my first website when I was pre-teen. I live and breathe the internet as much as any of you. I hope that punctuates some prejudices.

  19. Weird sentence in there. Correction:

    “But our site is like most agencys own sites not as big of a priority as our clients needs, therefore our website lacks.”

  20. Jonas says:

    @Joakim So you decided to NOT use the competence? (sorry, that’s just bashing)

    Not that I see where the discussion is going, it’s a topic that has been discussed a thousand times.

    SEO is useful, useful to everybody that uses the site. And that is why you have a site, it’s the core-purpose. Intelligence is growing and soon the clients know what SEO is (because they have a business to run and have to!) and showing off Flash-skills is just as “cool” as using great SEO.

    By using both you really show your competence. And that’s where you show that you can be useful to the client.

  21. Jonas says:

    Corrections, alot of clients do know what SEO is, and Drupal, and WordPress is old news. I have never heard a client request “something cool in Flash” but I have heard designers talking about how much they want to create something “cool” in flash.

  22. Joakim says:

    Joakim,
    If you had already decided that you would have a new site and invest time & money, why not do it right from the start? The design of your site could easily been done without flash by someone who knows his/hers css/ajax skills in a couple of days. It would be more efficient if you’d do it right from the start.

    And to blame it on that you don’t have any front end programmers in house is just so lame. You can’t seriously be a professional and come up with excuses like that. If it would be just as simple as a one-page design i’m sure a person with below average of knowledge would manage to do it with some effort.

    I think you/your company would benefit more if you took the constructive critiscism better and were willing to listen & learn instead of trying to explain/get even more lost in more excuses. That’s not classy at all. Walter has some very solid points. Why not just say thank you and look into these things and make it better? Also, as an ex Hyper Island student I would assume you could take constructive critiscism a bit better than this.

  23. I really like the design. It’s clear, concise and gives you a good idea about who Lowe Brindfors are. I don’t think you necessarily need to be all that “social”. I’m all for it but I can understand if you don’t.

    But to completely disregard Google and everything else (permalinks which gives the ability to share on social networks, copy/paste etc.) in favor of a flash site that you could easily build with HTML/CSS/JS in a couple of days is just sad.

    I wrote a short comment about my anticipation when I first read about the new site at http://webbsverige.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/lowebrindfors-se-lowe-brindfors/#comment-845

  24. Judith says:

    An extremely interesting and relevant discussion. I wish I could contribute with additional aspects – I feel however that the issue requires a blog post to describe my points (so simple yet so complex). I will soon return with my angle.

    / One who believe that SEO plays a multifaceted role in the new way of thinking about brand building

  25. Ok. Seems like I’m the only real SEO-guy here in the discussion and one thing I can tell you all – there’s a lot you can do to make a Flash site SEO Friendly. The best part is that it’s not that hard that everyone thinks.

    @Joakim Norman: I like Lowe Brindfors site, but this time you just come up with some lame excuses. Let me quote you:
    “We don’t have any non-flash programmers or SEO-guys inhouse, and hiring outside help for this is unthinkable given the times we are in.”

    Please…

    How hard could it be to change the following text on your site?

    In order to view this page you need JavaScript and Flash Player 9+ support!

    This is actually what the Search Engines see. It’t probably 2 minutes of work tho change this to a nice HTML tags with good content.

    Regarding your comment about Walters screenshots you definitely should be worried. To own your own name and brand is really important in Search Engines. Right now it’s piece of cake for anyone to rank high on the search term “Lowe Brindfors”. I could probably make it to the top 5 within minutes after posting a blog post. Make it one week and you could have me in top 3.

    Because what will the new customers do when they heard of you and wanted to know more about you? The first thing they do is not typing in http://www.lowebrindfors.se right in the browser. No, they will Google you…

  26. SEO = Accessibility = Looking at a website from a users perspective = Easy if you want to.

    There is something about this discussion that brings my mind to the song “Rise and fall” by Craig David. (YouTube – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07JQ29UVd2I)

    @Walter – Thank you for this blog post. This discussion will only grow from here and as advocates of accessible websites continue to make their voices heard, soon customers will stop paying for crap and thus LB will have to adapt aswell.

    However, I think you’re a bit harsh on the social aspect of LB. Considering you were able to write about them anyhow, I believe that they have a sufficient “shareability” aspect for their type of clients on the website.

    @Joakim Norman – To disregard SEO, as being just an add-on that can and should be employed when one can afford it? Well… that’s scary. It is like buying a BMW without an engine. It looks good, but it doesn’t take you anywhere. I think the opposite is better. Make sure it works, then you make it shine.

    On-site SEO principles does not only make you rank, they make you accessible for synthetic readers technology (you know those kind of machines that can read a website out loud), and many other aids for disabled people, making websites available/accessible to disabled. Now that is something I know most of all clients in Sweden should have in their CSR documentation somewhere.

    In 1999 I often heard the expression “if we build it, they will come”. Nowadays I use that as a joke with my buddies.

    However, I have never used LB as a bureau and I seriously have to look into some of your clients websites in order to give you a fair shot. As you say, you have no clue about SEO or web programming at your bureau, BUT you do hire that competence from other consultants. That is exellent and as I haven’t seen any of your work in action, I should not judge you. I am sorry if this passage seems unjust in any way.

    @Simon – indeed there are loads of ways to implement flash in an SEO friendly manner. I was about to post something about it yesterday on my blog – a how to – but I choose to play championship manager instead. :) I guess I’ll have to post something about it today. From the crappy ones to the good ones.

    @Magnus Jakobsson – You said “Men Walter, är det verkligen rättvist att säga att man på Brindfors “begår ett misstag” genom denna byråpresentation? Man måste ju känna till bakgrunden till beslutet om sidan innan man säger så.”

    I can’t disagree with you more. If you expect users to read visions of a company before visiting their website in order to understand it… well.. then you’re of by a mile.

    //Jesper

  27. Jonas says:

    Ofcourse, everythings possible. Amongst programmers the word is usually “if they say they can’t do it, it usually means that they don’t want to do it”.

    As it is today, creators choose between Flash and HTML-based sites. Usually, everything that you did before in Flash (tweens etc.) can be made with jQuery so the question is “why Flash?”. Which is a question dating back to perhaps 2004 in ALA’s archives.

    If HTML is the newspaper, I guess Flash is the TV.

  28. @Jesper Thanks for the elaborate comment, and your’re probably right that I might be a bit blunt at times, but I do have two comments:

    1. Shareability: I think that a lot of discussions about agency choice takes place online. Especially with big, national or global clients who have stakeholder who are not in the same room. Being able to point to certain work digitally then becomes important. And it’s easy enough to implement to make it wortwhile by a mile. Lowering the barriers of discussion about your brand is after all one of the core benefits of the internet.

    2. Buying internet competence from the outside: Most advertising agencies try to claim ownership of the clients strategy. LB certainly do. And I think it is key to have this competence as part of the agency genome in order to produce integrated strategies that actually work and are congruent across the board. Otherwise, you get what we see here all the time – the web as an ad-on. Or as Seth Godin famously puts it, “a cherry on the meatball sundae”.

    But thanks for commenting Jesper. You’re one of the greats of this industry, and you know it. (Putting your link up there as an edit as well, can’t believe I left you out. :-)

  29. Joakim (another one) says:

    Looks like they removed the news about LB’s site on resume.se
    Was the feedback too much for them and they asked to have it removed?

  30. Anton says:

    When I started to make websites like 10 years ago or something a often used sentence was “syns du inte, finns du inte”.

    Just having a website is pointless unless it’s easy to find it. The easiest way to get people to find you (=marketing) is by search engines. It’s just as simple as that. To make a website is just step 1, to get people to find it is step 2.

    It might not be so important for your own website. But for your customers, it might save a lot of money if people find their campaign site as cheap as possible. And I’m quite sure getting traffic from search engines are very cheap.

    Creativity, design and technology (which I think you’re incredibly good at, Lowe Brindfors!) could be very powerful. But with a little bit more knowledge of the next step, the marketing, you could make just as good sites but it will be easier for people to find it. I think that would be one of the best investments you could do in a recession like this one.

  31. Jonas says:

    I think this debate is going in an awfully wrong direction. Change the word “advertising agency” to “jews” and you will understand how racist it sounds.

    XOXO
    Jonas

  32. @Jonas någonstans känns det osakligt att jämföra judar med reklamare. Nästan som ett hungrigt barn som letar kaksmulor på golvet, desperat. Judendomen är en religion där man förlitar sig på en Gud. Där Gud styr och ställer över människors ” öde ” och där våra liv vilar i någon annans händer. Att jobba med reklam är ett yrke, något man väljer, något man någonstans (förhoppningsvis) tycker att man är bra på. Skillnad mot en advokat som har lagboken att förlita sig på har vi vår kreativitet. Det förväntas att du som reklamare ska vara duktig på problemlösning, du ska kunna komma på lösningar, du ska bemöta människor på deras hemmaplan och du ska vara extremt lyhörd. En advokat blir ifrågasatt av media, av inblandade, handlade hon/han rätt. Moral, etik spelar roll. Man behöver inte kunna citera en lagbok för att ha en åsikt. Men en som arbetar med reklam har man ingen rätt att ifrågasätta? Vi som säger att vi är duktigare, eller bra nog att livnära oss på att förstå människor, bemöta personer i olika situationer och kunna kommunicera – har vi alltid rätt? Det tror jag inte. Men jag lämnar frågan öppen.

    Det var cirka ett halvår sedan Daytona(www.daytona.se) hade ett Session på Rival i Stockholm. Bland det första Martin Ragnevad säger är ” ni klappar varandra på ryggarna hela tiden i era bloggar, det ska bli intressant att höra när ni säger vad ni egentligen tycker..”

    Det är på tiden att en form av diskussion har påbörjats, där vi kan tycka, tänka. Hylla, undra, fråga. All form av utveckling har grund i någons vilja och mod till att ifrågasätta.

    Vi jobbar med människor, för människor och vi kommer förmodligen flera gånger göra fel. Vi får stå för våra fel, vi får vara öppna för att folk ifrågasätter oss då vi tar på oss en roll där vi säger att vi är “proffs på kommunikation”. Innan handlade reklam om att förstå människor, analysera, vara nyskapande, bra på paketering. Det handlar det fortfarande om. Men den digitala revolutionen har inte bara börjat – den är redan här. Vi pratar inte bara längre med åskådare, vi pratar och flirtar med Google. Och om inte vi ska vara duktiga på att flirta, vem ska då vara det? Det är vårt yrke. Det vi säger att vi ska kunna.
    Det vi skiljer oss från andra med.

    Vi tar på oss rollen att vi kan få företag att synas, men sedan syns vi inte själva? Det räcker inte att måla en vacker tavla om man inte har ett galleri som ligger i rätt del av staden, om man inte bjudit in folk för att titta på tavlan. Det är vad som skiljer en konstnär från någon som säger att den är duktig på kommunikation. Att blunda för internet och grundläggande SEO(som jag tidigare själv gjort) är bakåtsträvande.

    Våga alltid undra, fråga och peta folk i magen. Likaväl som man berömmer folk när man tycker de gjort något bra.
    Och med det vill jag avsluta min kommentar med ett klipp från youtube. Och det här är, vad jag vill, hoppas, tror att reklam ska handla om.

    http://bit.ly/iktt

    / @KatjaJanford

  33. For those of you who can read swedish, check out Simon Sundén’s post on 10 reasons why all-flash sites suck.

    http://www.joinsimon.se/10-anledningar-varfor-sajter-helt-byggda-i-flash-oftast-suger/

  34. @Simon Sundén, well now the html is edited so now it’s no longer only “you need flash9+…” In Swenglish :)

    Reklambyrån Lowe Brindfors startades 1978 och är en del av det globala Lowe-nätverket som har 71 kontor över hela världen. Vi är idag ett 150-tal personer som arbetar med kunder som Saab, Ericsson, Swedbank, Vattenfall, Folkoperan och många fler

    The Lowe Brindfors advertising agency started in 1978, and during the years has produced some classic advertising campaigns for SAS, H & M and Ikea amongst others. Today we are 150 people working within the walls of an old tram station on Birger Jarlsgatan in Stockholm. Lowe Brindfors is part of the Global Lowe network with offices in 71 countries around the World. With the ambition to always aim for the best for our Clients we try to focus on less conventional approaches to advertising.

    In order to view this page you need JavaScript and Flash Player 9+ support! Get it here.

  35. Matthieu says:

    Simon’s blog is absolutely worth reading. Thanks for the link.

    Katja says something really important (among other things): our job is about solving problems.

    From this discussion and from Lowe Brindfors’ new site, it’s obvious we have different priorities when losing problems. LB puts the emphasis on visual perfection and strong concepts. I don’t anymore (and i must admit that most of what i did in my short AD career never reached LB’s standards).
    I believe new technologies have led us to new behaviours, and today’s and tomorrow’s problems will be solved by a combination of technologic competence and psychological expertise… because it’s the only way to engage the modern consumer on his own terms.

  36. Hi,

    I’m glad to see there’s a more friendly tone in the discussion now. I can take most of any type of critisism, and I’m not saying a lot of it here is not justified, but saying that I don’t understand or don’t care about internet, makes it personal, since internet and it’s technologies is a big part of my life. That is the only reason I’m here competing in the special olympics.

    I agree SEO is important. But I still don’t agree that adding shareability to our videos and making it SEO optimized through whatever technique would make a big enough difference for us to justify putting the production somewhere else. Our videos are still not ment to go viral, I don’t see how a link to youtube (where some of the videos already are, just not linked there from our site) would do us much good. I’d rather keep it simple and straightforward (adding shareability to everything is in this case the opposite).

    If you all are allowed to critisize, I should be allowed to defend. Simple as that.

  37. Petter says:

    Hey, great post! Really eye opening about the disadvantages with flash sites. Don’t like them myself and I probably never will. Of course it’s a problem if they only got flash programmers inhouse, but they could easily build it upon WordPress and make simple design adjustments and customisation in an already “SEO Ready” theme like Thesis. And they got all of the thousands of plugins ready made and easy to implement.

  38. Max Ahlborn says:

    Hej

    Tycker ni gör en höna av en fjäder.

    1) Det är klart att om man söker på Lowe Brindfors så ska sajten komma upp som nummer ett i resultatet. Nu ska jag testa… … … Det funka! Däremot så tror inte jag att det sitter någon marknadschef därute som ba: hmm… jag googlar på “awesome advertising agency” och ser om jag får några träffar. Någon sa att besökare nog inte kommer till sajten genom att skriva i http://www.lowebrindfors.se i adressfältet vilket är sant. Däremot så googlar de inte heller reklambyrå på måfå. SEO är alltså inte så himla, himla viktigt i just det här fallet. I någon annan business är det däremot viktigt att man hamnar högt på listan av ställen där man kan “framkalla foton digitalt” eller liknande. HTML-puritaner tycker jag är trötta. Flash-extremister likaså.

    2) Joakim #1. Att text som kommer från XML inte kan markeras är helt fel. Det har ingenting med saken att göra. Snacka med din Flashare.

    3) Joakim #2. Du blandar också ihop begreppen vad gäller “Front-end” eller klientsidan som det heter på svenska. Flash är just Front-End och inget annat. Precis som HTML. De är bägge två olika tekniker som körs på besökarens dator efter att ha laddats ned till cachen. ASP/PHP och andra språk som man använder för att göra grejer på servern innan innehållet skickas till mottagaren är det man oftast och lite slarvigt kallar back-end.

    4) Vi har precis släppt http://changeperspective.saab.com tillsammans med Brindfors och jag är svinstolt. De och vi har med hjälp av att blanda en rad olika kompetenser vi tillsammans besitter gjort ett jättebra jobb tillsammans. Och man hade man inte kunnat knåpa ihop den sajten med CSS. Var sak har sin plats liksom. Ibland är en teknik bra, ibland en annan. När folk intar så hårda positioner som några gjort här ger det bara ett inkompetent intryck. Om ni frågar mig.

    Puss och kram.

    Vad säger ni förresten? PC eller Mac?

    / Max

  39. “If you all are allowed to critisize, I should be allowed to defend. Simple as that.”

    Absolutely true. Discussion is always good and it’s good to see that you at least made the content so people/search engines without Flash can get what you are.

    The thing here also is that I think you look at differently regarding SEO is that you don’t see it how people would like to look at you as a company.

    Actually I’m writing this to help you, and help you understand the possibilities with Search Engines.

    Our minds regarding search is that we tend to think that whatever is in the Search Engine Result Pages (SERPs) are true and the higher you are the more likely that you’re the industry leader.

    To have a lot of content on your site and have it divided inte many pages is thus really good to dominate your own SERP for the keyword “Lowe Brindfors”. It’s not about putting up things on YouTube or to make things worse. Keep it simple but do think about your own SERP.

    For example: Right now this page is ranked at number 6 on Google International and will probably climb up to Page 1 in Sweden as well.

    This means that every potential customer that searches for “Lowe Brindfors” – the first thing they will see is that you copy you competitor Forsman & Bodenfors mistakes.

    This is nothing that I would want if I was one of the leading advertising agencys in Sweden. Don’t you agree?

  40. @Walter – Yes, I agree with your points above. But for most organizations there has to be some limit to what you promise your users. If you for example ask your visitors to share your content on facebook, or you ask them to create something from your website – then you also need to keep that promise all the way.

    You will need to have presence on Facebook, you will need to have allocated resources to reply to questions from the users when they need further tools to create what they want and not necessarily what you thought they should.

    For relatively small organizations such as LB this should not be a problem, but for larger ones these issues become more than challanges. Thus, your suggested rule of “more is merrier” is not allways the truth as it might confuse users and make them disatisfied with the brands commitment to its promise.

    However, I can feel myself turning this one into a retoric question rather than a practical one and as I have never been known for my retoric skills I forefit that battle :D

    Thnx again for keeping this topic alive!

    //Jesper

  41. @Max

    You’re showing off a beautiful production, and I think you have every right to be proud, because you’re on the production side and don’t have to be responsible for the strategy invoices being sent out.

    But this is also a brilliant example of what happens when internet competence is lacking in the strategy stage. Which is the main point I’m trying to make.

    Let me quote what was written today on Facebook about precisely the site you’re talking about by one of Sweden’s most important digital managers on the client side (I’ll let him come forward with his name if he so wishes. He reads this blog).

    ” I´m sorry SAAB, but you will not convince me to buy the new 9-5. The product presentation on the saab website is soo non-inspirational and they keep repeating “this is our (SAAB) perspective on things, what about consumers perspective????? :)”

    A wish Lowe Brindfors the best of luck if they end up in a pitch for one of his accounts, if they have cases like the Saab one in their (Flash)portfolio.

  42. Mattias says:

    Här kommer Bror Duktig från ACNE och läxar upp oss allihopa. Ouch.

  43. Magnus Lindkvist says:

    Very interesting post, Walter.
    On a different note. I’m looking for someone (brilliant agency or individual doesn’t matter) who can help me make Pattern-Recognition.se a lot better. I’m launching my book in November and need something more worthy.
    Looking forward to hearing from all you web magicians out there.

  44. Very interesting discussion and topic, of course! But also, I would say, a proof that we are in a paradigm shift… Since there are clients like SAAB that are more than happy with the way LB sees the world, and then there are clients like the one Walter quouted. I’m guessing it’s just a GOOD thing if LB site doesn’t make a statement of being all for the new tools, if that is not going to be executed for the client.

    I also agree with Max Ahlborn, I’m pretty sure a new LB client would google “Lowe Brindfors” and not much more…but if they were a smaller ad agency, the I would say SEO is crutial :)

    However, I do in-house marketing for a company that is just embracing online as a marketing tool, so I guess my expectations on ppls overall “readiness” is kind of skewed.

  45. Max Ahlborn says:

    @ Walter

    Jag hör dig och du har naturligtvis rätt i att jag inte är ansvarig för det rent strategiska arbetet som LB gjort/gör. Så det får de försvara själva om de vill. Däremot tycker jag inte att den anonyma kommentaren från Facebook gör en så bra poäng. Eller tja, någon kommer alltid att tycka att en rent varumärkesbyggande sajt befriad från sälj och produktinformation är för oinformativ. Och gör man å andra sidan en som visar upp produkten i alla möjliga vinklar så är det för lite varumärke och oinspirerande. Smaken är som baken. Däremot har LB och vi precis nyss också släppt en sida om själva bilen (9-5) som din anonyme vän kanske gillar bättre. Där är det produktinformation och consumer perspective för hela slanten. Tanken bakom lanseringen (gissar jag) är väl att de bägge sajterna ska komplettera varandra och tillsammans ge en bra bild av både Saab som företag och dess nya produkt.

    http://www.saabsverige.com/se/sv/start#/Cars/all-new-9-5/overview/Intro/
    http://changeperspective.saab.com

    / max

  46. @Walter

    Stort tack för cred!

    Har skrivit en mängd längre kommentarer offline men ännu inte riktigt kommit fram till vad jag kan tillföra efter den här enormt långa floden av kommentarer.

    Jag funderar på om jag inte ska ta datorn och en kamera och gå ut på stan och fundera på vad folk där tycker ;)

  47. @Johan Ronnestam

    Härligt förslag! Då blir det Ronnestam-intervjuer istället för
    matiné om söndagarna.

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About the Blog

This blog is written by Walter Naeslund and has been around since 2007. The blog is about the journey of starting an advertising agency and a sneak peek behind the scenes of what goes on at the Honesty HQ in SoFo, Södermalm. It is also a blog about communication & technology. The blog has gathered almost a thousand posts over the years with several longer and shorter breaks. Welcome and enjoy.
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